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	<title>Comments on: 15-18 (Lower That Number)</title>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Off</title>
		<link>http://www.daveknapik.com/2007/04/29/15-18-lower-that-number/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Off</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveknapik.com/?p=34#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Thanks - without sounding like a narcissist, if you look through Shane Meadows's Guardian blog for the comments from OffClowns, there are various links to bits and bobs to do with this story: the BBFC website; a BBFC examiner's commentary on the film; and the Guardian's (Press Association) report last Saturday.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Context does matter to the BBFC: the examiner's commentary makes clear that they take This is England to be anti-racist film, and that its depiction of racist violence serves this purpose. But I suppose the BBFC is obliged to consider all possible viewing responses, and it has to consider imitable behaviour in particular.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I see what you mean about 'the bottom line', and it may be that this decision represents a missed opportunity. However I think the debate equally represents a missed opportunity, because it has studiously avoided the issue of on-screen racist violence. Mark Herbert and Shane Meadows highlight the inanity of Hollywood gunfights and torture scenes: while the hypocrisy of attitudes here is obviously worth debating (Casino Royale, Snakes on a Plane etc), the actual BBFC decision implies that racist violence warrants particular scrutiny. And that leads to a wholly different argument - one worth having, surely. Meadows seemed anxious to avoid it altogether, to the point of characterising the racist violence in his film as solely 'verbal'; and the BBFC's spokeswoman, by not raising the specific issue - perhaps it was C4's editing? - allows dark mutterings about political correctness to thrive (some of which can be seen on the the 'BBFC delivers a kick to the balls' thread on the This is England forum at www.shanemeadows.co.uk).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for replying!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks - without sounding like a narcissist, if you look through Shane Meadows&#8217;s Guardian blog for the comments from OffClowns, there are various links to bits and bobs to do with this story: the BBFC website; a BBFC examiner&#8217;s commentary on the film; and the Guardian&#8217;s (Press Association) report last Saturday.</p>
<p>Context does matter to the BBFC: the examiner&#8217;s commentary makes clear that they take This is England to be anti-racist film, and that its depiction of racist violence serves this purpose. But I suppose the BBFC is obliged to consider all possible viewing responses, and it has to consider imitable behaviour in particular.</p>
<p>I see what you mean about &#8216;the bottom line&#8217;, and it may be that this decision represents a missed opportunity. However I think the debate equally represents a missed opportunity, because it has studiously avoided the issue of on-screen racist violence. Mark Herbert and Shane Meadows highlight the inanity of Hollywood gunfights and torture scenes: while the hypocrisy of attitudes here is obviously worth debating (Casino Royale, Snakes on a Plane etc), the actual BBFC decision implies that racist violence warrants particular scrutiny. And that leads to a wholly different argument - one worth having, surely. Meadows seemed anxious to avoid it altogether, to the point of characterising the racist violence in his film as solely &#8216;verbal&#8217;; and the BBFC&#8217;s spokeswoman, by not raising the specific issue - perhaps it was C4&#8217;s editing? - allows dark mutterings about political correctness to thrive (some of which can be seen on the the &#8216;BBFC delivers a kick to the balls&#8217; thread on the This is England forum at <a href="http://www.shanemeadows.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.shanemeadows.co.uk</a>).</p>
<p>Thanks for replying!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Knapik</title>
		<link>http://www.daveknapik.com/2007/04/29/15-18-lower-that-number/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Knapik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveknapik.com/?p=34#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, Off.  No worries about "banging on", I'm happy that you chimed in!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I appreciate your clarification regarding the depiction of "racist violence" being more central to the 18 certification than "realistic violence" or "strong language". Do you have a link to that story in &lt;i&gt;The Guardian&lt;/i&gt;?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Admittedly the reasons surrounding the 18 certification are confusing, with all sides having a slightly different story.  That said, I still feel that the most important issue here is that this film would be far more beneficial for younger audiences to see than it would be at all harmful. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Racist violence is indeed shown, but it is by no means glorified.  Doesn't context matter at all to the BBFC?  Certainly it should in this case.  Saying that it is inappropriate for under-18s because of "racist violence" implies that the film could promote racist violence.  I can't imagine anyone, of any age, who has at least 2 or 3 functioning brain cells watching that horrifying scene and thinking "wow, yeah, that's cool, let's go do that to some [insert racial slur here]!"&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;This is England&lt;/i&gt; shows racism dividing friends and ruining lives in a chapter of the recent past that 15-18 year olds weren't alive to witness.  It's educational in the way that helps us avoid having history repeat itself. The specific chapters of BBFC guidelines that were invoked to justify the 18 certification are less important than the bottom line: this BBFC decision insults the intelligence of Britain's youth and misses a great opportunity to teach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Off.  No worries about &#8220;banging on&#8221;, I&#8217;m happy that you chimed in!</p>
<p>I appreciate your clarification regarding the depiction of &#8220;racist violence&#8221; being more central to the 18 certification than &#8220;realistic violence&#8221; or &#8220;strong language&#8221;. Do you have a link to that story in <i>The Guardian</i>?</p>
<p>Admittedly the reasons surrounding the 18 certification are confusing, with all sides having a slightly different story.  That said, I still feel that the most important issue here is that this film would be far more beneficial for younger audiences to see than it would be at all harmful. </p>
<p>Racist violence is indeed shown, but it is by no means glorified.  Doesn&#8217;t context matter at all to the BBFC?  Certainly it should in this case.  Saying that it is inappropriate for under-18s because of &#8220;racist violence&#8221; implies that the film could promote racist violence.  I can&#8217;t imagine anyone, of any age, who has at least 2 or 3 functioning brain cells watching that horrifying scene and thinking &#8220;wow, yeah, that&#8217;s cool, let&#8217;s go do that to some [insert racial slur here]!&#8221;</p>
<p><i>This is England</i> shows racism dividing friends and ruining lives in a chapter of the recent past that 15-18 year olds weren&#8217;t alive to witness.  It&#8217;s educational in the way that helps us avoid having history repeat itself. The specific chapters of BBFC guidelines that were invoked to justify the 18 certification are less important than the bottom line: this BBFC decision insults the intelligence of Britain&#8217;s youth and misses a great opportunity to teach.</p>
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		<title>By: Off</title>
		<link>http://www.daveknapik.com/2007/04/29/15-18-lower-that-number/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Off</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveknapik.com/?p=34#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Hello - thank you for posting that More4 clip.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;'[T]he British Board of Film Classification gave This is England an 18 certificate, citing "realistic violence and racist language" as its reason for keeping any person under 18 from seeing it without parental consent'.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This doesn't seem to have been why the BBFC gave This is England an 18 certificate, despite what Shane Meadows says on The Guardian's blog. The BBFC cited 'very strong racist violence', not 'realistic violence' - and indeed 'realistic violence' never seems to be cited in BBFC decisions. I don't know why the director misrepresented the  decision to Guardian Unlimited readers: the paper itself reported the decision accurately in a story printed last Saturday; furthermore, the BBFC website is unambiguous, and it restated its position in very clear terms when Meadows' supporters queried the 18 rating.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Frustratingly, the spokeswoman interviewed on More4 seems to misrepresent the BBFC decision too, focusing attention on the language more than anything else - which seems to have been less a primary factor in the decision to award the 18 rating, than a supporting consideration. (The 'infliction of pain' issue looks more like something that C4 pulled out from BBFC guidelines militating against granting 15 certificates.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Apologies for banging on about this here as well as on the original Guardian blog - it just looks as though Shane Meadows (and now the BBFC too, it seems) are hesitant about discussing the fact that it was, above all, the depiction of a racist attack which led to This is England being 18-rated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello - thank you for posting that More4 clip.</p>
<p>&#8216;[T]he British Board of Film Classification gave This is England an 18 certificate, citing &#8220;realistic violence and racist language&#8221; as its reason for keeping any person under 18 from seeing it without parental consent&#8217;.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t seem to have been why the BBFC gave This is England an 18 certificate, despite what Shane Meadows says on The Guardian&#8217;s blog. The BBFC cited &#8216;very strong racist violence&#8217;, not &#8216;realistic violence&#8217; - and indeed &#8216;realistic violence&#8217; never seems to be cited in BBFC decisions. I don&#8217;t know why the director misrepresented the  decision to Guardian Unlimited readers: the paper itself reported the decision accurately in a story printed last Saturday; furthermore, the BBFC website is unambiguous, and it restated its position in very clear terms when Meadows&#8217; supporters queried the 18 rating.</p>
<p>Frustratingly, the spokeswoman interviewed on More4 seems to misrepresent the BBFC decision too, focusing attention on the language more than anything else - which seems to have been less a primary factor in the decision to award the 18 rating, than a supporting consideration. (The &#8216;infliction of pain&#8217; issue looks more like something that C4 pulled out from BBFC guidelines militating against granting 15 certificates.)</p>
<p>Apologies for banging on about this here as well as on the original Guardian blog - it just looks as though Shane Meadows (and now the BBFC too, it seems) are hesitant about discussing the fact that it was, above all, the depiction of a racist attack which led to This is England being 18-rated.</p>
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